Guilt By Association: Lesson 1

Obama is a black nationalist muslim terrorist who  believes that America is unjust and oppressive. How do we know this? Because he associated with Rev. Wright for 20 years and Farrakhan said he might be a good president.

Ok. Let's take a look at the other candidates.

John McCain has actively courted Rev. John Hagee and calls Rev. Rod Parsley a spiritual guide.

Though McCain would argue that he can't be GBA'd with Rev. Hagee's words it's clear he actively sought out his endorsement andis proud of it If he sought out the endorsement who glorified the Nazis I doubt he'd get away with distancing himself so easily.

Rev. Hagee is a lovely man.

Some quotes/positions of his:

Hagee, who serves as head pastor of the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, hosts his own television program that is seen twice a day on TBN. He argues that the United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West.1

"Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews."2

He has also denounced the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore of Babylon" and "a cult." He blames it for the Holocaust and predicts its imminent demise.

"This is the apostate church," Hagee said. " ... this false religious system is going to be totally devoured by the anti-Christ."3

In "Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To war" Hagee has stated that Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves by rebelling against God and that the Holocaust was God's way of forcing Jews to move to Israel where, Hagee predicts according to his interpretation of Biblical scripture, they will be mostly killed in the apocalyptic Mideast conflict Hagee's new lobbying group seems to be working to provoke and which John Hagee believes to be a necessary precondition for the "Rapture" that will lift Christians, but not Jews, bodily into Heaven to enjoy physical immortality amidst paradise.4

Well Islam in general -- those who live by the Koran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews.

All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.

The newspaper carried the story in our local area, that was not carried nationally, that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it would was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other gay pride parades.

So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the Day of Judgment, and I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.5

Now what about Rod Parsley?

John McCain has described Rev. Rod Parsley as a "spirtual guide"

Ok. That makes him fair game no matter what the rules are right?

What does Parsley say?

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

   "I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore." 6

So basically he hates everyone that isn't a conservative Christian and wants to start a religious war.

Now I don't actually think John McCain is a religious man at all. He doesn't really go pray with these folks regularly or anything. I've read enough about him to draw the conclusion that his intermittent contacts with religion are really politically motivated as these money-centered preachers are politically powerful folks on the right side of the aisle.

But that doesn't matter. Clearly he hates the gays, liberals, Catholics, America, jews, really everyone in the Middle East, New Orleans, pro-choicers, and wants to end the world, and more!

Hillary Clinton doesn't get away free and clear. She said she wouldn't have been part of Rev. Wright's church but who does she worship with?

In fact, her religious ties are much more serious and not in a good way.

Barbara Ehernreich, in The Nation, described Hillary Clinton's religious group, known as The Fellowship or The Family.

The Family's most visible activity is its blandly innocuous National Prayer Breakfast, held every February in Washington. But almost all its real work goes on behind the scenes--knitting together international networks of right-wing leaders, most of them ostensibly Christian. In the 1940s, The Family reached out to former and not-so-former Nazis, and its fascination with that exemplary leader, Adolf Hitler, has continued, along with ties to a whole bestiary of murderous thugs. As Sharlet reported in Harper's in 2003:

During the 1960s the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most anti-Communist (and dictatorial) elements within Africa's postcolonial leadership. The Brazilian dictator General Costa e Silva, with Family support, was overseeing regular fellowship groups for Latin American leaders, while, in Indonesia, General Suharto (whose tally of several hundred thousand "Communists" killed marks him as one of the century's most murderous dictators) was presiding over a group of fifty Indonesian legislators. During the Reagan Administration the Family helped build friendships between the U.S. government and men such as Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, convicted by a Florida jury of the torture of thousands, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, himself an evangelical minister, who was linked to both the CIA and death squads before his own demise.

At the heart of The Family's American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum. They get to use The Family's spacious estate on the Potomac, The Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by The Family's young women's group. And, at The Family's frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already powerful. 7

According to the LA Times,

. The group was begun by Abraham Vereide, a Methodist evangelist who feared that Socialists were corrupting municipal government in Seattle in the mid-1930s. He thought he could bring about change by organizing regular prayer groups with local business and government leaders.

He took his idea to Washington, D.C., in 1942. A small group of House members began praying together. A Senate group followed. Vereide believed that the small prayer groups could be used to help establish personal contacts with leaders throughout the world.

Pentagon officials secretly met at the group's Washington Fellowship House in 1955 to plan a worldwide anti-communism propaganda campaign endorsed by the CIA, documents from the Fellowship archives and the Eisenhower Presidential Library show. Then known as International Christian Leadership, the group financed a film called "Militant Liberty" that was used by the Pentagon abroad.8


Senator Clinton has been part of The Family since 1993. She's in a sex-segregated prayer group with wives of influential conservatives.

Hillary  Clinton, in her book Living History, describes Family leader, Doug Coe, as,

, "a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."9

The Family is like "prosperity theology" on steroids - with roid' rage.

As described by, Jeff Sharlet, who did some time in one of the sex-segregated cells in Washington D.C.:

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God--leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.10

The Family has even taken credit for some of Senator Clinton's more right-wing legislation according to Ehrenreich,

Furthermore, The Family takes credit for some of Clinton's rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing "religious freedom" in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics.11

Senator Clinton has been a member of The Family for 15 years. Clearly she must have learned the views of the leader, Doug Coe, in those 15 years.

So, by today's rules, Senator Clinton is a a pro-fascist, pro-dictator, anti-union, anti-abortion, right-wing cultist.

Now you won't see any of this examined in the traditional press. And we know why. But both McCain and Clinton are just as guilty as Obama.

Next lesson: Bill Clinton and his Canada Affair.  

Or we could all just STFU and go after McStupid!



Display:


now lets see (2.00 / 2)

how little HRC supporters actually care about taking on McCain.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:19:08 PM EST

Re: now lets see (1.80 / 5)

I'm guessing a lot of "Clinton supporters" are actually McCain supporters over here messing around.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

mojo for you my friend, MOJO!!! (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whatever (1.50 / 2)

You are trying to attack Hillary because of Obama's problems?  Won't work.  If Obama is to be the nominee- his problems are his problems.  Yeah, Hillary has hers too- that's why she comes into this with high negatives.   Obama's problems unfortunately happen to scare off a lot of white working class voters (um, that's a BIG problem). So, if we are to win in November, you can spend your precious time fighting off McCain and leave Hillary out of this.  If Obama is to have ANY CHANCE in November (IF he's the nominee)- he will need major help from the Clintons in FLA, OH, and PENN (as well as WV, KY, etc).  You might want to pick another battle my friend.


by easyE on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:20:36 PM EST

Re: Whatever (2.00 / 1)

The Family doesn't factor into her high negatives.

You didn't even read this did you?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whatever (2.00 / 1)

Yet

It will by November if she is the nominee.

Barack has run such a gentlemanly campaign, she hasn't begun to be vetted.


John McCain: Cheney with a temper
by wrb on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whatever (none / 0)

I don't expect McCain to go there. Coe is a powerful man.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:44:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

did you read the diary? (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Blaming Clinton supporters for Obama's pastor seems a bit illogical to me.


by optimisticBoy on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:32:35 PM EST

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

What? Read again. More slowly.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:43:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

I am responding your accusation that a lot of Clinton supporters here are actually McCain's followers.

Do you have any basis for saying things like that?


by optimisticBoy on Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

What? Read again and more slowly.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:43:17 PM EST

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

A right-wing, "pro-America" (not my words, the summary of words you quote that describe the furtherance of stated American policy in the Southern Hemisphere at the time) group is equatable to "God Damn America"; to U.S. of KKK A.?  Can't imagine why the MSM has run with this?  Is it because this is a red herring?  Think so!  You may argue the politics of Hillary's association with this group, but this is not Jeremiah Wright.  Nor is it parsing the relationship by Barack.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:06:22 PM EST

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

You're right. An influential group that likes to play with dictators and influence legislation rightward is far more serious than a loud preacher from the South Side who is at least a liberal rather than a conservative.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

what is liberal about condemning America?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

Hm. Liberals understand that America isn't perfect. That it's policies are oppressive both domestically and internationally and we want to change our policies accordingly. The fact that I even have to explain that to you makes me think you're just over from RedState having some fun.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

You're confused.  Liberal is fighting the policy, not the country!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

Who is fighting the country?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Remember Ayres?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:20:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

Yeah? You think all his acquaintances are some radicals or something? Can you see Mayor Daley leading the revolution?

Are all those  dictators The Family support pro-America? If not, doesn't that mean Clinton is fighting America??


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:26:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

You're stretching; or should I say you're parsing, as in more Obama speak?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

How so? Please explain.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Is Daley running for President?  If he were, isn't he significantly more qualified than Barack; i.e., he has a resume to judge which negates having to look at other factors such as "relationships"?  That's the distinction between Obama and Clinton or McSame.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

That doesn't make sense. If Daley's association with Ayer's is a problem than it's a problem.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

How do we judge a candidate?  By their resume or record.  When they don't have either, we judge on other issues.  Clinton and McSame (or even Daley) have vast resumes and records.  Easy to judge them.  How does one judge Barack?  One way is to look at relationships.  Mind you, Rasmussen polls show Obama's recent slide isn't because of his relationships.  It's because how he has parsed those relationships.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Obama has more legislative experience than Clinton so that doesn't make sense.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Experience in a small pond vs. experience in a big ocean.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:56:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

One full term in the Senate, in the minority party, hardly means that you get to ignore the fact that she's part of a right-wing religious group. In fact, since the group claims that it influenced her right-wing legislation, her association with that group is actually important.

However, your double standard is glaring.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Maybe she'll get Barack's Repub vote in November.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

She won't be the nominee so that's not possible. But he doesn't get the radical right-wing vote. She could though.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Kool-Aid.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Math


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Would that include FL and MI?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Sure. Even with those added into the mix in some manner Sen. Clinton will trail in pledged delegates at the end. Sen. Obama will need only a small percentage of supers to go his way. Sen. Clinton will need an unrealistic number to go her way.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Eh. I'll rephrase. If associating with Ayers is a problem then it's a problem for everyone not just Obama. Obama has a record so what you said doesn't make sense.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Oops.  "has run"  should read "hasn't run".


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:08:34 PM EST

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

I really don't give a damn who Obama worships with or what he worships. Religion shouldn't factor in to any of this, anyway. This is f*cking politics, but people are still determined to bring god into it. Infuriating.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:16:22 PM EST

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

And if their religion influences their policies? Would you prefer it to influence them to the right or to the left?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

I would prefer that it not influence them either way. It has no place in politics. But that isn't even the point. I look at their policies independent of their religions. Religion doesn't dictate policy. Bush is a warmonger, but if you judged him by his church, you wouldn't expect him to be.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:36:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Ah but religious figures can influence policy. That's inescapable. I'd prefer that they couldn't but they do.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

They can, but it's better not to go there. Unless one of our candidates belongs to a church which actively advocates the murder of children, or something, I really don't care. If I'm okay with the candidate's policies, I don't care about his/her religion.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Well what if they courted people who murdered children as an attempt to gain  influence around the  world?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

But if you go down this road, you just make it easier for people to say things like, "I won't vote for Obama because Wright was his pastor, and I think he shares his pastor's views." As an Obama supporter, why on earth would you want to go there?


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

People already say that.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

They do, but I disagree with it, and I refuse to buy into the mentality which feeds that kind of behavior.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:05:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

Good. So do I. The point of the diary was to show 1) the double standard and 2) how easy guilt by association is.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 1)

Well, it's a nasty, racist double standard, and I'm actually pretty ashamed of my country at the moment (moreso than usual, anyway). The guilt by association is, of course, just the same old "GOTCHA" bullsh*t we've always had. I guess that'll never go away either.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

Not with the corporate media in control of the message. Seems more like they want to deal with anything but the issues.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

I should say that I'd prefer my Democrats to be associated with and influenced leftists rather than right-wingers.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:00:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (1.00 / 1)

Maybe she'll get Barack's Repub vote in November.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (none / 0)

See above.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt By Association: Lesson 1 (2.00 / 2)

This is why the "Wright makes Obama unelectable" argument doesn't work for me. In the GE, it will be dueling crazy preachers and they will cancel each other out. Neither McCain or Obama will want to go there, and if others try to bring it up, the best option for both candidates will be to change the subject.


by jdusek on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:26:48 PM EST


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